Islam's enormous variety

How can Rumi's teachings be lived in the context of European culture? Marian Brehmer spoke to Peter Huseyin Cunz, Sheikh of the Mevlevi order in Switzerland for 24 years

Based in Switzerland, retired electrical engineer Peter Huseyin Cunz has been a Mevlevi sheikh for 24 years. Marian Brehmer spoke to him about Rumi's teachings in a European context

By Marian Brehmer

Peter Huseyin Cunz: One has to love the Koran and other holy scriptures, the prophets and the great mystics in order to understand them. The words of Mevlana resonate deeply within me. I love him, and he is my first reference for my understanding of Islam.

Blaise Pascal once wrote that it is necessary to know worldly things in order to love them, but that it is necessary to love divine things in order to know them. That is my experience too. Mevlana said this in his own words in many different parts of his oeuvre as far back as the thirteenth century.

You grew up in a Protestant environment. What was it that you found in Sufism that you did not find in the Church?

Cunz: I was born with the gift of a love of the profound, of the religious. I cannot say why. Even as a young man, I was searching for the invisible and asking questions about the meaning of existence and my Self. My vicar at the time told me that I should become a vicar too. But my path was a different one, even though it ultimately led to me assuming a teaching function.

Swiss Sufi Master Peter Huseyin Cunz (image: Stefan Maurer) — "In the West, we are above all familiar with the image of politicised Sunni or Shia Islam that is prominently peddled in the media," says Swiss Sufi master Peter Huseyin Cunz. "We are generally ignorant of the enormous variety of interpretations permitted by the Koran"

Engineer and Sufi master

While studying to become an electrical engineer, I went through my own personal period of storm and stress, which was marked by pacifist ideas and criticism of the institutionalisation of Christ's teachings.

I left the Church and devoted my attention to various Far Eastern philosophies and religions. Through a love affair, I came in contact with Islam, with which I was not familiar and in which I found a synthesis of the Far Eastern consciousness of oneness and the images of Biblical monotheism, which were close to my heart.

This synthesis made an impression on me. It was only ten years later that I encountered the mystical side of Islam, albeit initially in watered-down New Age form. It would take me another ten years to find what is now my home in the Mevlevi order.

There are people who have an overwhelming experience and find their spiritual path overnight. In my case, it was very different: searching and analysing, I took many small, but steady steps towards my spiritual home. With me, there is no story of enlightenment or other special event to relate.

How did you become a Mevlevi sheikh and what does this title mean to you personally?

Cunz: I was ordained in 1999 after several years of training and commitment under the guidance of my sheikh, Huseyin Top Efendi. For me, this title means bearing responsibility for everything I cause in the course of my duty. I feel that I am constantly being tested by God – whether I always put my Self and my ego last and whether I am following the ethics and morals that are valid in our culture.

Focus on individual fulfilment

Many people in this part of the world cannot comprehend the concept of "submitting" or "surrendering" to a master. What is the role of the spiritual master in the twenty-first century?

Cunz: I understand this lack of comprehension for two reasons. Firstly, there have been many cases of abuse and secondly, here in the West, we are embedded in a democratic culture of individualism. Individual fulfilment, self-awareness, self-respect and personal well-being are the top priority for men and women – in the spiritual realm too.

One need only look at the countless, spiritual New Age offerings to see that when using the term "spirituality", hardly any differentiation is made between psychology, emotionality, delusions of fantasy and traditional religion. The main thing is that one feels special and happy.

Because human egocentricity is now – and will continue to be – no different from what it was thousands of years ago, a spiritual master in the twenty-first century will not be teaching anything new. It is about curbing the appetitive soul, the emotions and the thoughts so that space for the profound can be created within us. It is only the outer form that must adapt to the culture and the greater knowledge of the day.

How did you manage to combine your profession and your vocation during this time? What has the work of an electrical engineer to do with the "spiritual labour" of a sheikh?

Cunz: The engineer in me helped me to achieve objectivity in spiritual matters. I have an urge to differentiate in a well-founded way between religion, culture and human interpretation, which is also very important in Islam. Islamic traditions and fixed rules are above all the result of theocratic policies within a mediaeval culture.

Reading at a Sufi shrine (image: Marian Brehmer) — Sufi culture outside the Islamic world? Much of what is seen as self-evident and inviolable in eastern Islam is deemed untenable here," says Peter Huseyin Cunz. "Together with my colleagues in Germany and the United States, I have negotiated adapted rules for the order in the West with the leaders of the order. For us, men and women are equal in everything. We practice and celebrate the sema, the dervish whirling ritual, together. We have no dress code for everyday life"

They do not come directly from the Koran, which should be seen as universal and timeless. Throughout my professional career, right up until I retired at the age of 65, I only had time for my work as a sheikh of the Mevlevi order in the evenings and at the weekend. This has been my main occupation for almost ten years now.

Centuries of tradition versus Western lifestyle

The Mevlevis are a centuries-old order that emerged and developed in Anatolia and in the cultural realm of the Ottoman Empire. What challenges have you experienced in adapting this tradition to the reality of people's lives in Switzerland?

Cunz: Yes, the Mevlevi order developed and spread within the political and cultural framework of the Ottoman Empire. Most of my fellow sheikhs in Turkey have an orthodox Sunni understanding of Islam, which does not resonate much with people in Switzerland and in the West.

Much of what is seen as self-evident and inviolable in eastern Islam is deemed untenable here. Together with my colleagues in Germany and the United States, I have negotiated adapted rules for the order in the West with the leaders of the order. For us, men and women are equal in everything. We practice and celebrate the sema, the dervish whirling ritual, together. We have no dress code for everyday life.

However, we do adhere to traditions within ritual activities. Rituals have their own power, which we don't want to lose by watering them down. In the individualistic culture of the West in particular, it is necessary to rediscover the value and the power of existing religious rituals.

Mevlana was culturally and theologically rooted in Sunni Islam. His teachings demand that one belongs to a traditional religion within which humility, devotion and commitment to God can be practiced, but also the detachment of the Self from formalities in moments of spiritual upliftment. I can find no parallels to Western mentality in Mevlana, even though many – out of a fascination for his poems – see Mevlana as a freethinker.

"The West's image of Islam has hardly improved"

In your view, how has the image of Islam developed in all the years that you have been involved with this religion?

Cunz: In the West, we are above all familiar with the image of politicised Sunni or Shia Islam that is prominently peddled in the media. We are generally ignorant of the enormous variety of interpretations permitted by the Koran. There are countless Sufi orders that have their own style of Islamic religiousness.

Even though Sufism has become more widely known in the West in recent decades, the West's image of Islam has hardly improved. This is not just a matter of the superficiality of Western perception, but also of the stubborn blindness of Islamic scholars who are constantly looking back and do not dare to suggest innovations in Islamic expression.

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Climate change, war in Ukraine ... we are living in turbulent, uncertain times. Which of Mevlana's messages do you consider to be key to people today?

Cunz: In my view, the greatest threat posed by climate change will be the predicted rise in sea levels, which will trigger mass migration and which, in turn, will have dreadful political and social consequences. Wars and mass migration are not new; they have always been with us.

Mevlana himself grew up in turbulent, uncertain times. His father had to flee the Mongol invasions with his family. Even within his own family, too, there were difficult times, for example when one of his sons vehemently opposed his teacher and friend Shams Tabrizi. But none of this diminished his inspiration.

Yes, the climate crisis frightens us; the many people seeking asylum alarm us. We are afraid because of the tension between the U.S. and Russia, which led to the current war in Ukraine, but also because of the bitter competition between the USA and China.

But what exactly are we frightened of? Of course there is the fear of material loss of whatever kind. It is this very human fear that the Sufi teachings seek to overcome. Mevlana preached over and over again that it is not about giving up social or political responsibility, but about giving up holding on to our own Self with its fearful sense of self and ego.

This can be practiced in every life situation. The changes forecast in the outside world are harbingers of the change needed within us. Whoever fears change will get stuck in crisis mode and forfeits the chance for spiritual growth.

Interview conducted by Marian Brehmer

Translated from the German by Aingeal Flanagan

Marian Brehmer read Iranian studies at university and now works as a freelance writer with a special focus on Islamic mysticism. His book Der Schatz unter den Ruinen: Meine Reisen mit Rumi zu den Quellen der Weisheit ("The treasure among the ruins: my travels with Rumi to the springs of wisdom"), published by Herder in 2022, is an account of a spiritual journey that tells of encounters with Sufis, searchers, and sages in Afghanistan, Iran, Syria and Turkey.