Qantara: In 2021, your partner and collaborator Lokman Slim was murdered in Lebanon, a killing many believe was connected to his outspoken criticism of Hezbollah. After his death, you said he "completed" you. How have you dealt with such a profound personal and professional loss?

Monika Borgmann: It's a permanent and daily challenge. Lokman and I shared everything—ideas, decisions, life. He is missing everywhere, every day. But the work continues, thanks in part to a great team.

In last April, Lokman's case was reopened after the judge said he was unable to identify the killers, and you wrote on X: "Justice will come!" What has been achieved in the last four years? 

Two judges have presided over the case so far. The last one, Bilal Halawi, who has three family members who were fighting with Hezbollah, was the worst, because he wanted to prove to us that it was not Hezbollah who killed Lokman. His first remark to us was, "I will prove to you that those you suspect are responsible for the assassination of Lokman are not the ones who committed it." He refused to say that Lokman was assassinated—instead he said "Lokman died."

However, we filed a letter on 26 November to the court of cassation to have the judge replaced. The moment he found out about it, he closed the case until we brought new evidence. Now, the court has decided to reopen the case with a new judge.

I know the case files. There is enough evidence—video materials and cars that have been identified that followed Lokman. If the political will existed, a lot could be done. I hope that it will come.

Together, you produced the documentary "Tadmor" in 2016, about Lebanese former detainees in Syria. In February, following the fall of Assad, the film was screened in Syria for the first time. What was the response? 

The film has been touring festivals all over the world since it was released in 2016. We have had many discussions about it, but had never discussed it in Syria until the screening in Damascus. The screening was full of people, among them former detainees. Some didn't have seats; they stood and watched until the end despite the length of the movie.  

I was really touched by the discussions in Damascus. One member of the audience found the film "too light", because there was much more torture in reality than the film shows. I had never heard a response like that before, but of course it's correct. 

The screening was extremely touching. I felt that it opened the door to shared suffering and discussions about justice and accountability.   

How similar were the cells that you reconstructed for the movie from the cells we saw in December, when the prisons were opened following the fall of Assad? 

When I went to Sednaya last February, I recognised the collective cells from our film "Tadmor". I felt that I knew them. The memory of the former detainees like Ali Abu Dehen (one of the film’s protagonists) was incredibly precise. We reconstructed cells in a disused school where we filmed. I even saw the blankets and shoes we had bought for the film. It's the first film which really tries to show what happened in prison. 

What about the people there? How different was the atmosphere after Assad's fall?  

Everybody I met was extremely happy that Assad was gone, but there were many doubts. I felt that there was a lot of hope, but also fear that this transition would fail.  

To make it work, accountability and justice should be the focus. Unfortunately, the crime scenes and prisons are currently not protected as they should be. If one thing needs to be achieved, it is justice. It will fail if Syria enters another circle of impunity.  

There are hundreds of Syrian organisations and individuals who have the know-how, and I hope they will be integrated in this transition.  

Do you think the new government will accomplish that integration?  

I hope they can be pushed to. Of course, most crimes were committed by the Assad regime, but members of the new government also committed crimes and ran their own prisons. Justice has to be inclusive; it can't be divided between old and new regimes.  

Syria needs to introduce a culture of justice against the culture of impunity. Through this, all crimes that have been committed in the past should be taken into account. It's not an easy task.  

From what I read and heard in Damascus during my visit, people are waiting for something concrete. It's not enough to say that something will happen in the future; there is a need to see concrete steps, and one of them could be the protection of a prison like Sednaya.   

There were some guards at the entrance to Sednaya, but the doors were missing, steel was missing. Each collective cell had a camera, and most of the cameras were gone, so the archives have disappeared. We saw footage of people drawing on the walls of the prison in Latakia, and even of activists doing the same in Sednaya. These places are crime scenes and should become museums afterwards. This new government should understand how symbolic such places are.  

You and Lokman Slim founded UMAM Documentation and Research (UMAM D&R) in 2004 to address the prison systems in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region. What role does UMAM play in addressing Syrian prison abuses?  

UMAM has been working for years on transitional justice in Lebanon. Through our initiative, the MENA Prison Forum, we have also worked on Syria for a long time, as well as on Palestine, Tunisia, Algeria and other countries. UMAM deals with documentation, transitional justice and memory—our mission is to challenge the culture of impunity. We are ready to share our experience. We're in contact with several Syrian organisations working on prison documentation and we offer help wherever we can.  

Hundreds of thousands of people are still missing in Syria. Families are waiting for news about their loved ones and for justice. How do you evaluate the situation?  

It's a catastrophe. We are receiving calls about mass graves, and we advise people not to touch anything; these are crime scenes. We need to get the Red Cross or other professional organisations to open these mass graves to take the DNA. Bodies can tell you a lot about how someone was killed, but only professional forensic teams can handle them properly. These graves hold vital evidence and can offer peace to families. But unfortunately, this takes a lot of time.  

Since November, Berlin has hosted the MENA Prison Forum, an initiative launched by UMAM to deepen understanding of the region's prison systems. But how possible is such an understanding? 

The deeper you look, the more layers you find. If you are living in the Arab world, you can see how present the topic of prison is. I would almost say that to understand the Arab world, you have to understand prison. Prison is not only torture and trauma—prison can also be a school. The Muslim Brotherhood ideology was born in prison. It is a very complex topic. 

The main idea of the forum is to bring together former detainees, filmmakers, artists, writers, judges, lawyers and researchers to rethink prison, torture and trauma. We had three events in Berlin, and the fourth event will be in June. Many of our partner organisations, previously based in Beirut, have moved to Berlin, so it has become a hub for post-Arab Spring dialogue. It is the best place to hold our forum. 

In what sense is understanding the prison system essential? 

In every sense: how a prison functions, what the mechanisms of survival are, understanding that even torture methods travel around the world, and the impact of prison on society.  

If I take the example of Syria under Assad, I believe that certain prisoners were released to spread the message of terror. Releasing prisoners who will then write, talk and testify about the experience will spread terror through the whole society. So, to understand this society, you need to understand the prison system. 

How does Syria compare to other regional cases?  

I avoid comparisons. Torture is torture. What marked Syria was how systematic the prison system was—very organised and intentionally terrifying.  

Some have suggested that Syria could learn from Germany's experience after 1945 in developing a memorial culture and system of justice. What do you think of that idea?  

Syrians should find their own path, but of course, they should profit from the experience of others. Germany had the Nazi experience, the Stasi experience—Syria's Air Force Intelligence Agency operated like the Stasi, documenting everything. Syrians can draw lessons from others, like Germany, countries in Latin America, or Tunisia. The key is not to copy, but to take what's useful. But in the end, how justice should be done will be a Syrian decision.