"We Use Any Methods We Are Allowed to under the Law"

Heinz Fromm is director of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, Germany's domestic intelligence agency. He told Peter Philipp about the policy his agency follows in dealing with Islamist terrorism

Heinz Fromm's main message is one that is often heard from leading German politicians – and that is: The Islamic religion and Islamist terrorism are two different things that should not be confused. Pious Muslims living in Germany have nothing to do with terrorism. The ones who really do constitute a threat to German society are those who manipulate Islam for their own political ends.

"They are fighting a worldwide struggle, the international Jihad, and some of them are trying to do just that here in Germany. One argument terrorists bring for their actions in Germany is German participation in the international fight against terrorism."

A confusing mix of different factors

Heinz Fromm's agency is trying to find out why and how Muslims living in Germany find their way into the terrorist scene in the first place. What is their motivation? Why are some of them planning or carrying out terrorist acts? There is no simple answer to these questions, Fromm says, but rather a confusing mix of different factors.

One group is made up of Muslim students who already had an Islamist background before they came to Germany, and who became involved in the 9/11 terrorist attack on the USA or in the failed terrorist attack on German trains last year. Another distinctive group of potential terrorists is made up of young Muslims who were born and raised in Germany and seem to be getting on quite well in German society.

As the example of Great Britain has demonstrated, these Muslims in the second or third generation of immigrant families can constitute an even greater danger. One big difference between Germany and Britain in this regard is the national background of these Muslims. Whereas in Britain, they are usually of Pakistani origin, most Muslims in Germany come from Turkish families. While Pakistan is considered to by a hotbed of Islamic radicalism, Turkey is generally much more moderate.

Democratic order not under threat

"The situation in Germany cannot really be compared with that in Britain," Heinz Fromm says. "But even so, it only takes an extremely small number of terrorists to cause great suffering and damage. The failed terrorist attack on German trains last summer showed that clearly enough. As far as we know, only two people were involved in that. The national background of terrorists is not really significant. But all the same, generally speaking the terrorist potential in Britain is obviously much bigger than in Germany. We have seen that on several occasions."

According to Heinz Fromm, the terrorist potential in Germany – although it should be taken seriously – is far from extreme. Germany's democratic order, he says, is not under threat. The state has to take appropriate measures in order to protect its citizens, but at the same time, it must respect the limits on these measures required the law. And it should not be forgotten that the state also has to guarantee freedom of religion to members of all creeds – including Muslims.

The German authorities, says Heinz Fromm, should act in a sensitive way when dealing with Muslims and should focus on the gathering of relevant information without being offensive.

"We gather information in different ways and by making use of different sources," Fromm explains. "We use any methods we're allowed to under the law. That means, we are working with human resources, technical facilities and any type of information that we receive from our partners in other countries. We try to evaluate such information and we try to keep problematic or dangerous groups and individual persons under control."

Questionable cooperation

Cooperation with partner institutions in other countries has become a bone of contention. Some people have argued that such cooperation is questionable because some of the information gathered by authorities in other states may have been taken by means of dubious practices such as torture. Heinz Fromm rejects this criticism:

"I am totally convinced that we must make use of all the information we can get and which may be relevant for the security situation in Germany. In other words: we act as an intelligence agency. Making use of such information in court is a totally different question. It's not up to us to decide which information can and should be used there. It's rather the courts themselves which make that decision."

According to Fromm, it cannot be excluded that some information gathered outside Germany has been gathered by resorting to unacceptable means. The problem is however that it is almost impossible for German authorities to identify such information.

Furthermore, Germany cannot afford to do without such information, which could turn out to be essential to prevent acts of terrorism. Who, Heinz Fromm asks, would accept responsibility should it turn out that a terrorist attack had not been prevented because vital information had been held back because of its dubious origin? These are issues which can be rather frustrating at times for the intelligence community – as is the fact that the courts don't always deal with cases in the way the Office for the Protection of the Constitution would like them to.

Accepting the courts' rulings

According to some observers, one such case is that of terrorist suspect Mounir Al Motassadeq – a Moroccan national – which has gone to a third trial and may go to more. But Heinz Fromm doesn't criticise the courts:

"No, I wouldn't say that. That's the responsibility of the courts, and they have to follow the law. In cases where enough evidence has been gathered, there is a trial and subsequently, a judgement is passed. In some cases, that has indeed happened. But there is not always enough evidence – and in such cases, the suspects may get away without punishment. We have to accept that."

Another important task of the Office for the Protection of the Constitution is to educate the public to differentiate between the religion of Islam and Islamist terrorism which abuses the religion for political ends. That's not always easy. Cooperation between his office and the general population could be better, says Heinz Fromm, and the same could be said about the cooperation between his office and Islamic organisations.

Although cooperation with Germany's two biggest Islamic institutions is generally good, their willingness to supply the office with important information could be greater.

But in the end, Heinz Fromm is quite pleased with the results achieved so far, even if he does hope that cooperation can be improved further.

Peter Philipp

Qantara.de

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