Qantara: In recent years, events like the COVID-19 pandemic and the Russia-Ukraine war have profoundly reshaped the world. You chose to call your latest book "The World After Gaza". What makes Gaza so significant? 

Pankaj Mishra: The destruction of Gaza represents a monstrous culmination of trends, particularly in Western Europe and the United States. Most prominently, it reflects a shift to the right, even the far right, particularly visible in the U.S. This shift began long before Biden or Trump.  

At its core, it reflects a move toward political nihilism: a rejection of laws and norms, and a turn toward lawlessness in which power and wealth are pursued without restraint. The mass killing of Palestinians, destruction of infrastructure and continued violence in the West Bank reflect this process. Western complicity signals an increasingly anarchic, nihilistic world. 

You argue that the West has instrumentalised Holocaust remembrance to justify violence and inequality. Are we drawing the wrong lessons from history? 

Countries like Germany and Austria have instrumentalised Holocaust remembrance, casting themselves as guardians of its memory. Germany sought moral rehabilitation after Nazism through its ties with Israel—and is now its second-largest arms supplier.

Behind the moral language lies a deep cynicism. The countries most committed to defending Israel—Germany and the U.S.—deserve closer scrutiny. My book traces how their political cultures have shifted since 1945: in Germany’s case, from murderous antisemitism to fervent philo-Semitism. These are the dynamics we must examine.

How is the Holocaust tied to colonial violence, and why is that link often ignored in Western discourse? 

Because many Western countries avoid confronting their genocidal histories, from North America, Australia and Canada, to the British-caused famines in India and Ireland. Colonialism was often genocidal, but the West, proud of defeating Nazism and communism, evades this reality. When voices from Asia or Africa raise this, they're dismissed as antisemitic or anti-Western. 

Many in the West are uninformed about the violent colonialism that made them rich and powerful. While we like to believe that we have invented democracy, science, and technology, we must also face the violence inflicted on much of the world—violence that continues today against Palestinians. 

In Germany, your book has faced criticism, with some claiming it provides an ideological basis to justify antisemitic actions in postcolonial activism. 

I see no reason to respond to these ludicrous allegations. Those making such claims should open their eyes to what the Israeli government is saying about eradicating Gaza and killing everyone there. There are reports of the rape of Palestinian prisoners, and of Israelis violating ceasefires by killing 400 people in a single day, including 180 children.

The last 18 months have exposed the intellectual and moral mediocrity of the German political and media class. Frankly, much of the German media can no longer be taken seriously. 

Another criticism raised is that you remain silent about the atrocities committed by Hamas. 

I've condemned Hamas' atrocities many times. I don’t need to discuss them in my book, because they have been extensively covered by the German, American and British press, including both real and fabricated events, like the 40 beheaded babies.  

However, Israel's actions, supported by the West, have overshadowed Hamas' actions. Since 7 October, Israel's cruelty has surpassed that of Hamas—they have lost the moral high ground through indiscriminate slaughter. 

You describe how Hindu nationalists in India have developed an affinity for Israel and Zionism, despite many also seeing Hitler's "Mein Kampf" as an inspiration for their nationalism. How do you explain this? 

In the '20s and '30s, many distinguished figures like Joseph Roth, the Austrian writer, and Hans Kohn, a pioneering scholar of nationalism, argued that Zionism took much from militant German nationalism, which eventually transformed into Nazism. Hindu nationalists also see similarities between Zionism and Nazism, both advocating ethnic dominance and the violent suppression of minorities.  

This may be shocking to Europeans, but many Indians view Israel as a model for dealing with Muslim minorities—through violence, land theft and occupation—while maintaining support from Germany. At the same time, Hitler is widely read in India, admired as a great nationalist and manager of nationalism. 

The comparison between Nazism and Zionism is criticised in Germany and Austria, because Zionism emerged as a response to European antisemitism, while Nazism was a genocidal ideology based only on racial purity. Does comparing the two risk distorting history and downplaying the Holocaust's uniqueness?

I don't think Germans and Austrians have the right to tell us what and how to think about the genocide their ancestors perpetrated. They should learn about histories of genocidal violence, what people like Nehru and Gandhi said about Nazism being the twin of Western imperialism. If they are not interested in making this effort to understand global history, I would beg them to stop imposing their interpretation of their own genocide on the rest of the world. 

I'm pointing out that Hindu nationalists are making a comparison that was also made by others in Europe, whom I mentioned. Were they wrong? Then let's explain how and why. If you want to refute them, go ahead. But calling this a taboo means you don't want to talk about it. That's not an argument; it's suppression. 

You point out how antisemitism is often framed as a "migration problem", while antisemitism from figures like Elon Musk and other right-wing personalities is ignored. What drives this media double standard? 

There is a growing irrationality in political and media cultures, where people refuse to see reality. Israel allies with some of Europe's and the U.S.'s worst antisemites. Netanyahu has embraced figures like Viktor Orbán and Donald Trump. While Israel partners with open antisemites, Germany and France continue to blame Muslims.  

Trump has suggested turning Gaza into a resort and expelling its population to neighbouring Arab countries. In Germany, antisemitism commissioner Felix Klein has expressed positive views on the idea. What does this shift in rhetoric reveal? 

We are witnessing severe distortions in memory culture, where those entrusted with fighting antisemitism now advocate for Gaza’s ethnic cleansing. 

Many in Germany’s political and media elite have supported Israel without realising it’s become a far-right Jewish supremacist state that is dismantling the post-1945 international order. International organisations, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, agree that Israel’s actions amount to genocide.  

German politicians now face a dilemma: they could admit that they were wrong, acknowledging complicity in war crimes. The other option, chosen by many, is to insist that they were right all along and rely on superior military, cultural, and diplomatic power, believing they can get away with anything. 

You argue that ethnic cleansing in Gaza and the West Bank is likely. What should the international community do to prevent this? 

Israel's actions and the support it receives have damaged international law. Countries like South Africa, Spain, and Ireland recognise Israel's actions as genocide and support the ICC's arrest warrants.  

Meanwhile, Germany and Austria risk repeating history, becoming complicit in the destruction of international law and basic human decency. This reality needs confronting, but many, including German journalists, are turning away. 

In your book, you show how nation states shape memory to build identity and uphold power. Yet there's no clear alternative to the nation state. How can we rethink memory politics? 

National memory cultures create narratives leading to irrational action—like Israelis killing their neighbors at an unprecedented rate, people they ultimately have to live with. In Germany, it has led to complicity in a second genocide less than a century after they vowed to protect Holocaust survivors.  

These absurd situations are caused by rigid, unreflective memory cultures that shut down vital conversations about colonialism and nationalism. The result is intellectual and moral dysfunction, as seen in Germany and Austria, where people can no longer think or feel. They see Palestinians holding the bodies of headless children and feel nothing.