"Jews and Muslims need to talk together more"

The Jewish-Islamic Research Centre at the University of Tubingen was founded barely six months ago. Its aim is to build bridges between Muslims and Jews. But after the Hamas attacks on Israel and the ensuing war in Gaza, is this still possible? 

Fahimah Ulfat: Firstly I'd like to stress that I was profoundly shocked by the Hamas terror attacks on Israel. My sympathies are with all the victims and their families and I stand firmly with all those fighting for peace and justice.

Not only has the Hamas terror attack caused untold human suffering in Israel and Gaza and impacted the region, but it is also reverberating on a global level. In this current situation, the Jewish-Islamic Research Centre – with its work and goals – is actually more crucial than ever.

Asher Mattern: That said, the horror of the attacks and the Israeli strikes on Gaza with thousands of deaths do leave us wondering whether any dialogue is possible at all. The consequence of these events is that – apart from a few exceptions primarily in academic circles – Jews and Muslims alike are continuing to withdraw into their suffering, no longer allowing themselves to be touched at all by the suffering of the other group.

There are milieus here that are only exposed to their own media – perpetually revolving discourses that in extreme forms can even lead to the other group becoming dehumanised.

"The Jewish world feels very threatened"

Mr. Mattern, how have you and your friends and acquaintances been doing since 7 October? How do you gauge the mood within the Jewish community itself?

Mattern: The Jewish world is generally very agitated and feels very threatened. On the one hand, nobody thought an attack like the one carried out by Hamas was possible. Currently, the assumption that the State of Israel can protect its citizens is very shaky – as is the sense of security that the existence of such of state conveys to all people of Jewish faith.

The harsh military response is therefore not only explained by the need to specifically dismantle Hamas infrastructure, but also by the need to restore this image of robustness with which the State of Israel can credibly exemplify the "never again" pledge: never again will Jews allow themselves to be slaughtered.

This "never again" pledge was severely rattled by the Hamas pogrom, which was a veritable slaughter of citizens, from infants through to elderly people, surprised in their sleep or as they danced.

So, this is also the Jewish perspective on what's happening in Germany – such as the murders being celebrated in Neukolln or the arson attack on my community KAJ in Berlin. We must never forget that these attacks impact a societal group that has suffered enduring trauma. I see a profound sense of insecurity in view of what may still be to come.

Safe spaces needed for frank discussion

Ms. Ulfat, how have these events impacted Germany's Muslim youth? What do you think can be done to prevent the conflict getting out of hand in Germany too?

Ulfat: My biggest fear is the potential radicalisation of young people. Social media and their algorithms can result in young people being drawn into a network of conspiracy theories and hate speech that can further escalate the situation.

From an educational perspective, it's important that efforts don't miss the mark by giving young people the feeling that they're not allowed to comment on the current crisis. Instead, we need to create safe spaces where the issues can be addressed. 

I've also been talking to my students about the current situation. We have spoken openly about their inner turmoil and despair; they were able to differentiate their viewpoints in consideration of the range of different information and contexts. And I received clear feedback on the value of these safe spaces for debate.

Mr. Mattern: Pro-Palestinian demonstrations have been repeatedly banned in Germany. Is this a restriction of freedom of expression and the right to protest, or is it acceptable?

Mattern: Upon first glance, the matter appears straightforward, as in a liberal constitutional state there must be a right to free expression, also when demonstrating solidarity with the Palestinian people.

On the other hand, any form of violence or incitement to violence is of course prohibited and must also be stopped. In practice, however, this is much more complex, because participants with different ideas can infiltrate any rally that sets out to be peaceful.

Fear and rage need to be vented

In addition to the specific threat, Jewish citizens' sense of insecurity exacerbated by the historical context must also be taken into account.

Nevertheless what I'm seeing at the moment is that solidarity with the Jewish people, which is necessary against the backdrop of German history, can lead to general suspicion of any pro-Palestinian statements.

It makes sense that from a Muslim perspective, the current bans are being perceived in the context of the generally strongly anti-Islam, anti-migration discourse in Germany. So how should citizens with Palestinian heritage express their fears about friends and family currently being bombed in Gaza? Demonstrations can – as long as they remain free of violence – also be an important way to vent rage at the occupation and the thousands of deaths in a channelled manner and "let off steam".  
 
After all in the long term, it would be terrible were Muslim members of our multicultural society be made to feel that their suffering is less relevant than that of the Jews; that there's a blanket mistrust of statements in favour of the liberation of the Palestinian people and an end to the occupation.  
 
This could result in radicalisation and as a result, an increase in attacks on fellow Jewish citizens instead of legal demonstrations.

Historical facts are of little importance

Since 7 October, nothing is as it was: where do you now see the research centre's most urgent task?

Mattern: The most pressing challenge is to dismantle the polarisation of the two groups: Both sides in the conflict over territory in the Middle East use religious resources and ideological narratives to legitimise their perspectives. These almost always also define Muslim and Jewish discourses in Germany. When it comes to the forming of opinions, historic facts are of little importance on both sides. As a research centre it is our primary task to break through this.

As part of the project "meet2respect", together with an imam, I regularly visit school classes in Berlin where Muslim students have been known to make anti-Semitic comments. Once there, I often realise that any personal rejection immediately falls away with their experience of me as an individual human being.

When I tell them about the suffering that has befallen Jews through history, but also for example in the context of attacks by Muslims; and when they also see that I recognise their suffering and that I'm able to reflect critically on Israeli policies, then suddenly I'm not the Jewish enemy anymore, but the person Asher Mattern.  

However, such viewpoints are much more entrenched in adults and it requires far more intensive work to change these one-sided perspectives. With this in mind, our real long-term challenge is to use our academic work to impact society.

"No one side is completely good"

Ulfat: In a world that is being divided and polarised by this conflict, we aim to conduct ourselves in an educationally responsible manner. My educational message is focused on how to deal with situations where no one side is completely "good", and in which moral dilemmas often make it impossible to make any kind of definitive judgement.

Many religious people believe they can always remain morally "pure" by "correctly" applying their religion's commandments, which is naive. Recognising the irreversible "uncleanliness" of the world is part of a mature religious attitude.

Initiatives such as "meet2respect" are decisive steps in the right direction. But still, we need even more resources to further develop and sustainably establish these kinds of educational and encounter-driven offensives.

Judith Kubitscheck

© epd 2023

Translated from the German by Nina Coon

Fahima Ulfat, professor of Islamic religious education, and Asher Mattern, lecturer in Jewish theology, jurisprudence and hermeneutics, co-founded the Jewish-Islamic Research Centre in Tuebingen at the beginning of June.

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