You launched your podcast, Unapologetic: The Third Narrative (UTTN), after the 7 October attacks and the beginning of the war in Gaza. What is the "third narrative" you are seeking to advance around Israel and Palestine?

Ibrahim Abu Ahmad: We saw that conversations about Israel and Palestine had become deeply polarised, both locally and globally. The "third narrative" is a unique, inclusive community for those seeking real, nonviolent solutions. It doesn't just mediate between sides—it transforms the conversation, paving the way for meaningful change.

What does "unapologetic" mean to you?  

Amira Mohammed: We're unapologetic about two things: our Palestinian identity, which transcends borders and suffering, and our demand for justice, collective liberation and real peace. The podcast aims to humanise those behind the slogans and flags, and to elevate silenced, misrepresented or oppressed voices. We want a space where hard, even triggering, questions can be asked.  

Israeli and Palestinian identities are often seen as opposites, and the histories we believe in seem contradictory—though they refer to the same land and timeline. We can’t pretend these questions don’t exist. That’s why we must talk about them. We don’t want another 7 October—nor a return to 6 October. 

With season two launching in September, what can listeners expect? 

Mohammed: Season one focused on different identities living on this land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. We noticed that many of the people we spoke to were men and Jewish Israelis. At the same time, we reached a wide international audience because the episodes were predominantly in English and built a network through our travels to countries like the United States, the United Kingdom and Germany.  

But starting a dialogue and fostering empathy is not enough. Gaza's death toll is rising, famine is spreading, violence in the West Bank is spreading and the hostages are still not home. That's why season two will focus more on activism—especially Palestinian activism—and most guests will be women. We ask our guests: Who are you, what do you do, and how can we help? 

After two years of non-violent mass mobilisation to end the war, some say nonviolence has made no real impact. How do you respond to that critique? 

Mohammed: Many say nonviolent resistance is fluffy and ineffective. But with unity and consistency, it's powerful. You can't escape the topic of Palestine now—it's on the streets, in coffee shops, on social media, in headlines. That's rare compared to other places facing starvation, mass killings or genocide.  

Freedom flotillas, boycotts, strikes—that's nonviolence, and it works. In Israel, there are weekly protests. People who lived in a bubble in Tel Aviv or Netanya before October 2023 can't ignore the reality anymore. Simultaneously, there are hunger strikes by Palestinians in the West Bank: For example, after the killing of activist Awdah Hathaleen, about 70 Palestinian women went on hunger strike until his body was finally released.  

Abu Ahmad: Nonviolent activism takes many shapes and forms. When settlers tried to block humanitarian aid trucks from reaching Gaza, Palestinian and Israeli activists stopped them by removing roadblocks or by standing at the roadside to prevent settlers from rushing to the trucks. These activists have also acted as human shields to protect Palestinian villagers in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem from settler assaults.  

We cannot give up. If we allow these dangerous leaders to continue unchallenged, they will have free rein and we would be complicit. We deserve better. Violence has only worsened our reality, and we refuse to be drawn into violence that will only bring destruction.

As part of the younger peacebuilding generation, on- and offline, how has the community changed since 7 October? 

Mohammed: There is a deep thirst for life and change. That's what death does—it shocks you, then pushes you toward life. I think the young protesters are truly admirable; they're holding onto their values and holding leaders accountable for their actions. These efforts don't always make the news, but a lot of positive work is happening. The images coming out of Gaza have awakened many people. 

Abu Ahmad: 7 October changed many things, and many people have shifted their views. For some, it reinforced their beliefs; for others, it brought despair. We lost some partners and gained new ones. But this has undoubtedly been a wake-up call for peace organisations. What was done in the past was simply not enough—and the current reality proves that. This only means we must work even harder, recognise the many brave people taking action on the ground, and harness our grassroots power to create change from within. 

How have you changed personally? 

Mohammed: We've taken on more responsibility as younger members of the peacebuilding community, especially with our understanding of social media. I've become more vocal and more aware of our "privileges", using them to amplify others and advocate for those who need it. 

Abu Ahmad: For me, it's about learning from past generations and understanding why their approaches didn't work. Despite the challenges, we've found allies who reignite our passion. When you meet people with that fire in their eyes, it lifts you up when you're feeling down. Peacebuilding isn't always easy—it's tough work. We have to constantly remind ourselves that we're doing this for the best interests of our people. 

Looking back, what mistakes were made that hindered past efforts towards peace?  

Abu Ahmad: One fatal mistake I see in the Oslo process was the attempt to forge connections between Tel Aviv and Ramallah before connecting Tel Aviv and Nazareth. How can we connect people across borders when those within the same borders don’t know each other well or haven't fully recognised one another? To this day, Palestinian citizens of Israel often speak both Hebrew and Arabic, yet the education system is primarily in Hebrew—even though the two communities live side by side. How can you truly understand someone if you don't speak their language? 

As a Palestinian citizen of Israel, I also struggled to connect with people in the West Bank and Gaza and to grasp their reality. So how can we foster peace when such divisions remain? Eventually, people lost hope—especially when we were close to finding solutions. It's often in those moments of proximity that resistance from radical forces becomes strongest. 

You're referring to the mid-1990s, which saw Palestinian bus bombings and the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Itzhak Rabin by a right-wing Israeli. Today, the far-right dominates Israeli politics while the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank appears powerless and is very unpopular among Palestinians.  

Abu Ahmad: Unfortunately, we lack brave political leaders today. While such leaders may exist, they need support and space to grow. For that, the international community must help fight extremism and empower Palestinian leaders who have been silenced for so long. The world hasn't done enough to support them against a leadership that has held power for decades and refused to make room for diverse Palestinian voices. 

Given the complexity and diversity of identities in this land—legally, socially, religiously—how inclusive is the peacebuilding community right now? 

Abu Ahmad: In Israel, to confront the current government and its radical voices, a stronger coalition is needed—and that can't happen without Palestinian citizens of Israel. We make up 20 percent of the population, yet the Israeli left has never truly viewed us as full partners, only when it's convenient. Meanwhile, the right uses us as leverage. Benjamin Netanyahu's 2015 slogan, "Arabs are rushing to the voting polls," was meant to scare Jewish Israelis into voting, and in 2020, he used "Bibi vs. Tibi," referring to himself and Palestinian politician Ahmad Tibi. 

Mohammed: I agree—it needs real partnership. We also need to build unity separately within both Palestinian and Israeli communities. Doing so will expose the many internal identities within each community, shaped by experience and separation. This will foster inclusion. More and more people want to break stereotypes, like Christian Palestinians or non-white Jewish Israelis of Middle Eastern descent.  

There is nuance, there are grey areas. But there is also black and white: we can't debate if occupation, killing civilians or taking hostages is ok. These things are not negotiable. Unfortunately, political leaders like Netanyahu and Donald Trump like to use the word "peace" only to justify what they are doing. 

Regardless of what kind of political solution we will find in the future, peace cannot come without justice and without collective liberation. And that's exactly what you can expect to be discussed in season two.