Qantara: For years, Greece has been Europe's port of arrival for refugees from numerous countries around the world. Where do most refugees currently come from, and how would you describe the status quo of Greek refugee and migration policy? 

Nasim Lomani: Most people still come from Afghanistan. Compared to the past, the situation has calmed down, but the reasons for this are not positive. The reality is that illegal pushbacks and border controls have increased. This means that many refugees do not arrive at all because they are taken back to Turkey or die at sea.  

A particularly striking case is the ship that sank off Pylos in June 2023. Over 600 people died, and to this day, there are still disputes about exactly what happened. Forensic Architecture released an investigation that proves the ship capsized because the Greek Coast Guard attempted to tow it. The Greek authorities deny this.

Along with pushbacks, the poor quality of the smugglers' inflatable boats is a key factor in the high death tolls. Additionally, many people are forced to take more dangerous routes due to stricter border controls.

Does that mean the EU is intensifying its efforts to shield itself from refugees?

That's right. EU spending on reception camps and securing the external borders has increased massively in recent years. Much of this money flows to Greece. There are also deals with regional authorities to deport refugees. 

One example of this is the agreement between Germany and Uzbekistan from September 2024. Uzbekistan and other authoritarian states are realising that these kinds of deals can work to their advantage. They are subsidised by the EU, and they can impose conditions, for example, by demanding visas for workers who want to come to Germany, while young refugees are deported. 

Of course, there is an economic calculation behind this on both sides. Countries like Germany know that they depend on cheap labour from elsewhere. However, from a German or Western perspective, it is desirable that these workers leave at some point. 

You have been critical of the term "economic refugee".

Of course. In my opinion, it is fundamentally wrong. People flee because of the living conditions in their countries of origin. As long as these circumstances exist, whether in the form of wars, climate change or hunger, the number of people fleeing these countries will not decrease.

None of the EU's repressive regulations will change this situation. No matter how much one pursues surveillance and control, people will continue to leave, and they will always find new routes that open up for them. That is the nature of flight. The so-called "management of flight" does not create solutions as long as people continue to need to flee. 

In 2016, you and other activists occupied the City Plaza Hotel near Viktoria Square. What led up to this, and what can be said about Greek refugee policy in this context? 

To this day, the area around Viktoria Square is considered a refugee centre. There you find many people looking for accommodation and many who have become homeless. In 2016, the situation was so catastrophic that we wanted to take a stand. There were so many empty buildings, but thousands of people were camped out on the square. We wanted our protest to highlight the need for decent housing for refugees in Greece. 

But there is still no sign of this today. Many people who arrive in Athens cannot find state-organised accommodation and have to organise their own place to stay. In most cases, these are private flats where no rooms are rented out. People have to pay for mattresses to sleep on in shared rooms at exorbitant prices. Fifteen to twenty people can easily end up squeezed into three or four rooms. 

Greece is seen as a stopover for many refugees, partly because of the living conditions. Although they often stay at first, many aim to move on. 

That's right. I arrived here over twenty years ago and decided to stay. Back then, there were no activists or even interpreters available for refugees. Even today, there are good reasons for people to move on. There is neither a well-developed welfare state nor the possibility of family reunification.  

Even though people don't stay in Greece for long, populists and demagogues have blamed refugees for every evil, including the country's weak economy. Today, we see the evidence: many people have left, but the problems have remained. It will be no different in those Central European countries where many racist and anti-refugee discourses currently prevail. 

What would you like to see as a real, long-term solution?

If the root causes of displacement were recognised, it would be an important step in the right direction. I still can't travel to Afghanistan because I belong to an ethnic and religious minority. It is also highly questionable that so many Western politicians are working to normalise relations with the Taliban.  

Moreover, it was the West that waged war for 20 years in Afghanistan without any success. The consequences of that war are clear, but the West does not want to take responsibility. They deny and ignore the damage they contributed to. It is similar to their role in other conflicts. 

Right now, there are many new refugees from Palestine and Lebanon. These people are fleeing because of Western violence. Israel continues to receive massive support from the USA, Germany and many other countries. Another necessary step would, therefore, be to stop the supply of weapons. 

It is high time that we define the causes of flight. We need an honest policy based on values. Instead, we are seeing the opposite: the individual right to asylum has been effectively abolished, and the the Geneva Convention is being overlooked. Responsible actors, such as the EU, should take action to combat the underlying causes of flight and not punish the people who are forced to leave their homes.