Qantara: You recently published a study in which you examine the theory of "imported antisemitism". Given the tense climate, were you concerned about being misunderstood?

Neta-Paulina Wagner: We were obviously aware of the sensitivity of the issue, but that was also the catalyst for the study. The security situation for Jewish people in Germany has deteriorated, and we've seen a massive increase in antisemitic incidents. At the same time, there's also been a sharp rise in anti-Muslim racism. In this heated situation, one explanation has dominated politics and the media: the thesis of so-called "imported antisemitism".

The thesis, in other words, that antisemitism is primarily introduced by migrants, in particular those from predominantly Muslim countries.

Our question was, is this thesis correct? Or does it fulfill a particular function related to, for example, Islamophobia in Germany? When we published the results, we were worried that individual findings would be simplified or taken out of context, which is why it's important to clarify that this is an exploratory study. Our aim is to open up a dialogue with the scientific community and to spark further developments in antisemitism research.

The conclusion of your study is that the thesis of imported antisemitism is not tenable. However, the results show that the group of respondents from a Muslim background agreed with antisemitic statements significantly more often than the non-Muslim group. Are you not brushing aside antisemitism in certain groups?

We're not brushing anything aside, but rather adding context and nuance. That is an important distinction. The study clearly identifies problem areas and offers statistics. When it comes to antisemitism related to Israel, for example, the Muslim-influenced group had an agreement rate of 28 percent—almost three times higher than that of the general population group. The same applies to certain statements of secondary antisemitism...

...which is a form of antisemitism that serves to deflect guilt or avoid remembrance of the Holocaust, particularly in Germany, often accompanied by a reversal of the roles of perpetrator and victim.

When both groups were asked about this perpetrator-victim reversal, agreement among the group of Muslim respondents was also almost three times higher. But—and this is a crucial point—the results don't prove the thesis that antisemitism is imported. On the contrary, they show that antisemitism is not a strong cultural characteristic. Antisemitism is, in part, learned here in Germany.

Here's an example that underlines that point. We looked at peoples' familiarity with the term "Jew" as a slur. Among new immigrants only 11 percent knew it from their childhood whereas 42 percent of second-generation immigrants were familiar with it. That suggests that antisemitism is not something that arrived here in a suitcase, but rather that it was learned in a German schoolyard. We also recorded significant, at times measurably higher rates of antisemitic attitudes in parts of the "mainstream society" group. There it was not due to imported antisemitism but rather political orientation.

How do you explain the fact that newly arrived immigrants are more likely to agree with statements expressing secondary antisemitism than people who have lived here longer?

We have several problems here. Certain statements elicited high levels of agreement, but not all of them. One of those statements was, "It annoys me to hear about German crimes against the Jews over and over again." That is a clear guilt-rejecting formulation of a kind developed in German research 30 years ago.

But we encounter limitations here, because our measurement tools were developed for a supposedly homogeneous post-war West German society. What does this measure in a person whose family immigrated from Turkey or Syria just 10 or 20 years ago? If they agree with this statement, it is certainly not because of a sense of guilt or a family connection to the Holocaust.

Now, it may well be the case that agreement with the statement is based in antisemitic resentment. But it could also be something else. We don't know yet. Perhaps the agreement is rooted in a perceived inequality of treatment. Does the person feel that Jewish suffering is proportionally more acknowledged in Germany, or that Jewish people enjoy special protection in Germany?

That's why we're stating very clearly: this is an exploratory study. We urgently need new surveys that are sensitive to the culture of remembrance and also reflect the diverse experiences and conflicts that exist in post-migrant German society.

If one established that these statements were agreed with for antisemitic reasons, would that then confirm the thesis of imported antisemitism?

That would be incorrect as it's an oversimplification. The thesis supposes that antisemitism is being imported into a society that is allegedly enlightened and has left antisemitism behind. That's why it's so important to examine the context of mainstream society.

In the case of the statement, "It annoys me to constantly hear about German crimes against the Jews", the agreement rate among people with a Muslim background was around 30 percent. But among AfD voters, for example, who currently make up around 20 percent of the electorate, well over 50 percent agreed.

So, it cannot be an import if secondary antisemitism also exists here, sometimes at even higher levels. In the mainstream population, we see a clear connection between party political preferences and antisemitic attitudes.

If it is shown that antisemitism is also prevalent in mainstream society, is the import thesis invalid? Does that mean we don't need to look at antisemitism in migrant groups at all?

No. That still serves a purpose. Antisemitism is a real threat to Jews in Germany. If we want to tackle this, we have to look at where the real dangers lie and how prevalent antisemitism is in which segments of society. In doing so, we also see that there's no single template for combating antisemitism.

Currently, however, a great deal of resources are being devoted to combating supposedly imported antisemitism. I am by no means saying that we shouldn't tackle antisemitism in predominantly Muslim groups, but the problem seems to be much greater in another part of German society, and there it is being ignored.

In the study, you also found that those who support the thesis of imported antisemitism often harbour covert antisemitic attitudes themselves. How do you explain that?

Those who are the loudest in claiming "imported antisemitism" are also more likely to agree with antisemitic statements. This was particularly evident with regard to the statement critical of remembrance: "It annoys me to keep hearing about the German crimes against the Jews". Anyone who agrees with this statement is not really interested in protecting Jewish people.

We also asked about anti-Muslim attitudes, and what we saw was a very strong statistical correlation between people who agree with the import hypothesis and those who agree with both antisemitic and Islamophobic statements. This suggests that this particular group is trying to externalise antisemitism and to shift the blame away from themselves by denigrating Muslims.

Does your study refute the idea that antisemitism is widespread on the Left?

Many people say that they perceive significantly increased antisemitism among left-leaning people. I believe that antisemitism certainly exists on the Left. This is hardly surprising, because antisemitism is a worldview in which the existence of Jews is the root of all problems—a black-and-white way of thinking from which leftists, like everyone else, are not immune. 

At the same time, our data very clearly contradicts this perception and the discourse which flows from it. It clearly shows that antisemitic attitudes are least prevalent among left-wing and Green voters. Consistently. 

What is your personal conclusion from the study?

Ultimately, it's about enabling Jews to live safely in Germany. We can achieve this by systematically researching, recognising and combating antisemitism. To do this, we have to pinpoint where exactly it's found and, at the moment, we are not acknowledging a fairly large source of antisemitism, at least not in public discourse. That's problematic. 

We're taking the easy way out and saying: "We can deport antisemitism. We don't have to invest in educational programmes. Antisemitism is a problem that can be easily solved." But antisemitism cannot be deported.

Translated from German by Louise East.